Wiki-translation discussion

Forum List Topic List

[ prev topic ]  

How to retroactively apply translations?

Posted by ricks99 on Fri 11 of Apr, 2008 13:51 GMT United States
I have a 1.9 multilingual Tiki that I am about to upgrade to 1.10 (to take advantage of these new i18n capabilities.

How can I quickly & easily tell Tiki if my existing translation sets should be set as complete or partial. I have 300+ pages in 4 languages, so going page-by-page is not the way to go...

-R
Reads: 56962
Link
Posted by alain_desilets on Fri 11 of Apr, 2008 18:11 GMT
> I have a 1.9 multilingual Tiki that I am about to upgrade to 1.10 (to take advantage of these new i18n capabilities.
>
> How can I quickly & easily tell Tiki if my existing translation sets should be set as complete or partial. I have 300+ pages in 4 languages, so going page-by-page is not the way to go...
>
> -R

Great news Rick! Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

At the moment, I think you would have to do this by hand for all 300+ pages.

But we could probably figure out a way to do it in a more scripted way.

Louis-Philippe, what do you think would be the easiest way to do this?
Link

Posted by lphuberdeau on Mon 14 of Apr, 2008 13:54 GMT Canada
On a basic transition, it will consider all pages to be "complete" because it has no tracking information to read from. Subsequent edits will indicate the out-of-dateness as tracking information builds up.

I don't think there is a way to say which pages need updating without having to read the entire text. It may be possible to have an interface to show all pages side by side so you can identify if there are missing blocks. However, you would need to make the diffs manually get the right portion highlighted.

Transition is an issue and I don't think there is an easy way to solve the problem. At this time, I am running out of time and I don't think I can help out much. I may be able to give it a look mid-May.

One thing you could do to help out is try to do it manually for the most important pages (probably those with the largest content) and try to identify the type of differences you would like to see highlighted and maybe sketch out interfaces that could help you (scanned paper is good).
Link
Posted by alain_desilets on Mon 14 of Apr, 2008 14:22 GMT
> On a basic transition, it will consider all pages to be "complete" because it has no tracking information to read from. Subsequent edits will indicate the out-of-dateness as tracking information builds up.
>
> I don't think there is a way to say which pages need updating without having to read the entire text. It may be possible to have an interface to show all pages side by side so you can identify if there are missing blocks. However, you would need to make the diffs manually get the right portion highlighted.

Actually, I can help with that part. There is a free Perl script developed by Moore at Microsoft which you can use to automatically align sentences in pairs of pages. I could probably cook up a script that would do the alignment automatically, and then tell you the percentage of pages that the algorithm could align with confidence. If that percentage is say, above 95%, you could take a chance and label the pages as being complete translations of each other.

>
> Transition is an issue and I don't think there is an easy way to solve the problem. At this time, I am running out of time and I don't think I can help out much. I may be able to give it a look mid-May.

There is another "easier" problem that needs solving. If Rick could write an input file that said which pages in one language correspond to which page in an other language, could we write a PHP script to enter them into the DB and create the language association automatically, without Rick having to do all of that manually?


>
> One thing you could do to help out is try to do it manually for the most important pages (probably those with the largest content) and try to identify the type of differences you would like to see highlighted and maybe sketch out interfaces that could help you (scanned paper is good).

Yes, that would be great.
Link
Posted by alain_desilets on Mon 14 of Apr, 2008 17:23 GMT
BTW Rick,

I would really like to help you get started quickly on this, since you would be our first "real" test user!

I am pretty busy this week, and so are L-P and Seb, cause we are trying to finish a paper about CLWE we are writing for WikiSym.

But we should be mostly done by next Tuesday. Would you be willing to spend that day working on this with me?

I can't promise I'll be that helpful. I don't know the code that well yet, but am trying to learn. But I do know the Moore alignment stuff well and have used it for another project.

If we work together using the wiki-translation chat to communicate, I'm sure others (ex: LPH) might be willing to keep an eye out and help us when they see us barking up the wrong tree.
Link
Posted by ricks99 on Mon 14 of Apr, 2008 19:18 GMT United States
> BTW Rick,
>
> I would really like to help you get started quickly on this, since you would be our first "real" test user!

I'm actually having some issues with my site upgrade (from 1.9.x to 1.10) — too many customizations.

Once I get my Tiki up to 1.10 I'll let you know.

-R
Link
Posted by ricks99 on Tue 15 of Apr, 2008 19:01 GMT United States
Following up on this thread... (I have finally got my 1.10 site (mostly) working)....

I have a translation set of four pages. Before upgrading to 1.10 (and using the super-cool new translation stuff), my page "in-sync-ness" was:
  • Welcome EN (100%)
  • Bienvenido ES (100%)
  • Willkommen DE (80%)
  • Bem Vindo PT (50%)

After the upgrade, as stated in this thread, Tiki reports all 4 pages as "up-to-date."

This is the process I thought to work:
  1. Edit and save the EN page.
    Tiki now shows ES, DE, and PT as "need improvement", as expected.
  2. Go to the ES page.
    Tiki shows EN as better, and DE & PT as "equivalent", as expected.
  3. From the Translation module, I click UPDATE FROM ENGLISH.
  4. Save the page as COMPLETE TRANSLATION.
    Tiki now shows EN as equivalent, DE & PT as "need improvement", as expected
    Likewise, if I switch to the EN version, ES is now shown as equivalent.
  5. Go to the DE page.
    Tiki shows EN & ES as better, PT as equivalent, as expected.
  6. From the Translation module, I click UPDATE FROM ENGLISH
  7. Save the page as a PARTIAL TRANSLATION (as it was only 80% complete)
    Tiki still shows EN & ES as better, but PT is remains as equivalent — shouldn't it be WORSE?
    Likewise, on the PT page, Tiki shows EN & ES as better, but DE as equivalent. Shouldn't DE be listed as better?
    How can I show the relationahip between the DE and PT versions?

Is this something that I need to manually filddle with? Can someone point me to the correct database tables?

-R
Link

Posted by doc.tw.o writer and translator (not regi on Tue 15 of Apr, 2008 13:54 GMT
> I have a 1.9 multilingual Tiki that I am about to upgrade to 1.10 (to take advantage of these new i18n capabilities.
>
> How can I quickly & easily tell Tiki if my existing translation sets should be set as complete or partial. I have 300+ pages in 4 languages, so going page-by-page is not the way to go...
>
> -R
We have the same issue at doc.tw.o. which was upgraded to Tiki 1.10 (the theme style is not upgraded yet, and thus, some aesthetic things look ugly). But translation module is enabled there, and some people started to use it. However, the diff will not be of much help since translated pages (many very outdated respect to the corresponding english pages) seems to be set as complete translations as a start point.
Anyway, I'm glad we can use the new translation features on doc.tw.o also. (thousands of wiki pages in there)
Link

Upcoming Events

No records to display